Post by princezarbon on Jun 14, 2014 11:32:57 GMT -6
Which of the remaining Androids would you want made in SH Figuarts format?
I personally want Android 19 and Dr. Gero [Android 20] as they are my favorite Androids in the series run overall, respectively in that order, so I voted for them. Also, I would like Android 14 of the movies but only after Android 19 and Dr. Gero. You can vote for three choices. Please notate which characters you vote for.
I think they should make Android 16 to compete the trio.
I haven't decided if I'm going to buy Android 17 or 18 yet though. They never resonated with me as being that cool; I prefer the first two DBZ sagas.
I did like Super Android 13 though, so I'd probably get him if he was made, but there are at least a dozen characters or more that I would rather own.
Agreed. Coincidentally, 17 and 18 are complete skips for me as they are very non-unique in the design department and are just basic folk to me. I prefer the alien characters severely not only for their captivating story and engrossing characteristics, but also due to their overall design and appearance being a knockout in comparison. This is why Android 19 is my favorite of the entire Android debacle and pretty much the entire Cell saga in its entirety. I also greatly prefer DB from beginning to when Frieza gets killed. The Cell stuff was the weakest to me as well, so I am in complete 100 percent agreement with Branjita in that regard. I, however, felt that the Buu saga was better than Cell as well due to characters plot devices of Pui Pui, Yakon, Spopovich, Yamu, Dabura, Babidi, etc being better to me than all of Cell. Cell was pretty much my least favorite canon arc as well as my least favorite of the primary antagonists in the entire franchise as a whole. I also agree with Branjita about 17 and 18. They are also my least favorites overall of the supporting antagonists. My favorite sagas are Frieza Saga and Red Ribbon Army Saga because both incorporate a mass of evildoers and military madmen whom I greatly adore. I found 19 and Gero to be a strong extension of the Red Ribbon and its affiliates. I did not, however, enjoy 17 and 18 as they can be regarded as malfunctioning units and were never evil to begin with. I also hate traitors who go against the true villains, so yeah. It makes sense that I wouldn't like anti-heroes or traitors in general since I'm a villain fan.
Post by princezarbon on Jun 15, 2014 12:18:31 GMT -6
Android 19 would be my favorite in the Android saga. He's also my favorite android character. 19 was a greatly successful creation as he was an energy absorbing model. He also aided Dr. Gero to alter himself, making Android 20 a reality. On the matter of 19, I felt his fight was the best thing about the entire Cell saga as most of the rest of that saga just plain bored me... I absolutely hated 17 and 18... found them to be an utter useless waste of time (and they looked boring as heck)... as well as the fact that I absolutely detested their role of malfunctioning traitors (likely my least favorite characters in the entire series run). 19's fight completely filled me with joy (especially seeing that rotten Goku getting pounded when inflicted with the virus... and 19 enjoying the deadly tight grip as he tried to suck the life out of him... the sheer brutality and pleasure made for a great fight scene; The fear factor and the emotional depth behind Vegeta's standing up for Goku and portraying his might makes 19 a knockout awesome character as a device. Especially when Vegeta showed up and handed 19's own behind to him by shredding off his arms and decapitating him. That was Just. Plain. Awesome.
I'm curious why you don't seem to like Imperfect Cell since you're a big villain fan? He was by far Gero's greatest and most successful creation, and was the most cunning, ruthless, and patient villain in the series in my opinion. He always knew when he was outmatched, and outsmarted the heroes at every turn. He was also the creepiest villain, sneaking around and absorbing entire cities' worth of people. He had an unique design as well.
Post by princezarbon on Jun 15, 2014 14:29:29 GMT -6
Cell is, ultimately, my least favorite character in the entire series from beginning to end aside from Androids 17 and 18 being my most hated. He was by far the most boring character and had the worst ending to me as a character overall. I hate dragged-out characters who take up screen time but do very little in the time that they appear. I especially strongly hate Perfect Cell the most due to having that very lame Cell Games and doing very little as a device. When you look at a villain, you need to equate all their actual actions, not just their behavior and characteristics. To me, attitude in and of itself, is the least important facet of judging a character. The most important things for me are:
1. The role they play - how they fight, how they are written into the story, what type of plot device they are used as.
2. Their final curtain - how they take out others and how they themselves are taken out.
3. How they are used - how they effect the story as a whole in a shorter, more limited amount of time as opposed to appearing a lot and doing very little for story.
This is why Cell was the worst; because he was more of an antagonist and not much of a villain. I highly preferred Buu even though I didn't like him either. The best villains to me are the ones who do not appear all the time but do a lot in the time that they do appear onscreen so none of their appearance is a complete and utter waste of time. Cell's Cell Games was the absolute worst 30-episodes in the entire series, and especially the final 3 episodes of that saga being my 3 least favorite episodes ever due to the Final Kamehameha lasting way too long and having minimal if any dialogue. And after all that, Cell's death scene was terribly boring along with his final end. It lasted too long, dragged on, and wasn't anywhere even a quarter as good as any of the other villains in the series. Although I did not hate Imperfect Cell and Semi-Perfect Cell as much, Perfect Cell was so annoying and boring due to his competitive genetics, I hated his other forms for being associated with him. I still found Imperfect Cell and Semi-Perfect Cell to be levels better than Perfect Cell due to the overall usage as devices even though he still wasn't good because it was him the whole time as opposed to having a slew of colorful villains in a saga, which was MUCH more exciting and brilliantly orchestrated in propelling the story.
When it comes to Buu, he is also a stronger character construct, the characterization of infantile behavior yet at the same time being a devastating entity. Actually, all of Buu's forms are a strong persona, each having a strong device usage; one childish [Majin Buu], and the other calculated [Super Buu], whilst the last is a personification of insanity [Kid Buu]. All these personalities conjoined make for a deadly inner struggle that is released on the outer realm. Also, the essence of Majin Buu feeling agony due to his dog [bee] being capped and his friend [mr. satan] being harmed forces him to relinquish his viciousness on the physical plane. This is awesome writing.
If you look at main villains or antagonists in general, Frieza takes the cake. He's the most sinister, vile, and cruel in the entire franchise. But since I prefer the supporting villains due to their usage as plot devices, his minions are my ultimate favorites. However, Frieza's destructive pattern and his overall story is grandeur. Taking into mind that it is he himself who caused the very fear that lingers within and the paranoia that sets the story itself in motion. It is he who causes Bardock to be propelled into the past and cause his own fear of the Super Saiyan. It is his own doing that becomes his undoing. And after all the pain and suffering that he caused and the shackling of countless civilizations, Frieza is felled by the very mistake he himself originally unleashed, very congruent with a Greek Tragedy. This is the ultimate fatalistic approach and a powerful moral and psychological complex. It is due to this very overconfidence coupled with his complex persona and his great fear that leads him to be the greatest primary villain of the series, not to mention the fact that he's the most important and integral for the plot itself.
Now that each character's story arc and usage is understood, there's another reason why Cell fails also. It is due to the actual connection to the story. Each and every villain that thrives and strives for the collection of the Dragon Balls, is an excellent device. The antagonists who are there just to be strong or stronger are failures. This is the main premise of the story: it is about the Dragon Balls and whoever acquires them becomes superior. It is not about who is the strongest. This is what many younger fans fail to realize. Now when it comes to Frieza, the main purpose of the story is the Dragon Balls. When it comes to Buu, the main story connects to the balls in a long stretch, as the balls are used to restore Goku's energy for the final fury that relinquishes Kid Buu's flame and revitalizes him in the end as Uub. Even when it comes to the Shadow Dragons, they are a strong connection as they are a result of the usage of these balls and the very negative energy that gave them life; a beautiful conundrum of cause and effect. But when it comes to Cell, he's just a revenge precept that is conjured up because of previous failures in the story. This is the weakest and most non-connective of the sagas. So basically, Cell fails in every way compared to the other villains and antagonists in the series run in my opinion.
Post by The Great Saiyaman on Jun 15, 2014 15:08:41 GMT -6
I have bought every character in the SHF line and fully intend to buy every future release. But if they release any of the "Super Android 13" movie androids, I will ABSOLUTELY not buy them. I really don't want them to get into movie characters, but I'd probably even buy a Broly if they made him. But I would absolutely not buy an Android 13. Or 14. Or 15.
Cell is, ultimately, my least favorite character in the entire series from beginning to end aside from Androids 17 and 18 being my most hated. He was by far the most boring character and had the worst ending to me as a character overall. I hate dragged-out characters who take up screen time but do very little in the time that they appear. I especially strongly hate Perfect Cell the most due to having that very lame Cell Games and doing very little as a device. When you look at a villain, you need to equate all their actual actions, not just their behavior and characteristics. To me, attitude in and of itself, is the least important facet of judging a character.
I have to admit, I'm very happy to see another Cell hater. Now, he's hardly my LEAST favorite character since I did enjoy him before he reached perfection... and I still see the importance of him in the series (or at least to what Toriyama was trying to do with Gohan)... but he really was a poorly written character.
I don't mind Imperfect Cell much either, but Perfect cell was just the worst. At least in his first two humanoid forms, he had goals. He wanted to reach his perfect form. After that, what the hell was he f*cking with everyone for? He was just a King Piccolo knockoff with no motives. The cell games made absolutely no sense and were boring as hell. He didn't give a crap about anyone on earth or the planet itself. He barely cared about Gero's old vendetta and already accomplished what he was made to do. And man. He was so cocky. Especially for someone who never interacts with anyone short of sucking their life out.
Post by princezarbon on Jun 15, 2014 16:15:39 GMT -6
@the Great Saiyaman:
I agree with your ideology. First and foremost, I also hated the fact that Cell was not unique for himself. He only established a sense of stealing or re-using pre-existing powers and attacks. He never had his own original maneuvers or construct. Being a superhuman being that comes from the DNA of all the protagonists and antagonists just makes him a brick wall for layering. There isn't much to go on after that, though. We don't need someone saying how "perfect" they are for 60 episodes. As an audience, it would be much better to witness that.
The Cell Games is my single most hated piece of the Dragon Ball universe. Think of something that you hate from the Dragon Ball GT series and multiply that by a few thousand. That's how much I hate the Cell Games and more importantly the ending of that ridiculously boring saga. If someone is not a fan of Gohan or Goku, that saga is an utter failure in establishing anything else. It was just made to show Gohan's surge in power and his uncontrollable nature of toppling his opponent after getting pissed off. We had already seen that multiple times, so it was nothing special in its own right. We didn't need 30 episodes to accomplish this. And we certainly didn't need 3 full episodes of a beam struggle that was torture. If you want to know why I hate Cell Games even more, just check out Lizardsphere X. I myself don't like comedy or parodies at all, but this one really shows how terribly written a character Cell is.
Toriyama's strong points of writing were from the beginning of the Dragon Ball series all the way to when Dr. Gero gets decapitated. It gets terrible after that and it only picks up again after the World Tournament ensues in the Buu Saga. There's a large 60 episode waste in between that which could have been filled with something much better than time travel, dimensional rifts, DNA constructs, and useless absorption; this was never the central concentration of the series and it was the failing point. Like I said, if someone is not a fan of Gohan's story such as myself, that saga is a complete failure. You don't need 60 episodes of 22 minutes footage each to convey this message. It was an utter waste.
Post by Adrenaline on Jun 17, 2014 12:05:48 GMT -6
Cell hater or not, the fact you leave his other forms off this list is pure bias. You also forgot Android 8, Super Android 13, Super Android 17, and Cell Jr.
Your hatred for Cell seems to run deeper than just what you think is a bad storyline or character. It seems personal on some level. Did a guy dressed as Cell steal a girl you liked? Lol then I might understand. But I won't argue. It's your opinion only. No need for me or anyone else to explain why he was one of the best characters in the entire series, opinion or not.
Now if you said Baby was the worst idea or thing in DB, then I'd agree.
Last Edit: Jun 17, 2014 12:19:47 GMT -6 by Adrenaline
Collection Goal Update: 501 Characters Down, 499 To Go
Post by princezarbon on Jun 17, 2014 13:20:25 GMT -6
Adrenaline: I don't consider Cell's forms to be separate entities. They do have different concept art and designs, but they are still the same character.
Also, Android 17 was never a villain, much less an antagonist. I didn't include any of the GT stuff, so Super 17 was obviously out since SH is limiting its releases to DBZ.
Another thing, I didn't have any personal experiences regarding Cell; I simply always found the entire debacle to be an utter waste of time and rather boring. Simply put, I prefer it when there's a repertoire of colorful villains running around in a story, as opposed to just one. This is why I find Marvel universe and DC universe to be very exciting. Because neither focus on a single antagonist. I know that's besides the point, but that is a reason why I love Frieza Saga the most.
Post by Adrenaline on Jun 17, 2014 13:55:01 GMT -6
I will agree with you on one point, having an arsenal of colorful villains is intriguing. Which is why the Ginyu Force concept was very well done.
But as much you don't consider Cell's forms separate entities, they still are technically. Especially if you consider Future Cell could have met himself in entirely different forms. I don't see Cell as one villain. I think the addition of 20, 19, 18, 17, and 16 played a great role in leading up to Cell, which offered us a variety of new villains, characters, and colors (as we like)
And I think Super 17 has a right to be included, especially if we're including movie Androids, which probably have a less chance of being made. But man, an SHF Android 14 would be sick.
Even though I have all of these characters, my votes went Android 14 (wouldn't mind an upgrade to my custom), Gero (a Pre-DB version would be awesome), and Android 16 just because he was my favorite Android.
Last Edit: Jun 17, 2014 13:59:48 GMT -6 by Adrenaline
Collection Goal Update: 501 Characters Down, 499 To Go
Post by princezarbon on Jun 18, 2014 15:07:36 GMT -6
@ Adrenaline: I don't consider most of the Androids you mentioned villains at all, much less antagonists. I tried to limit the votes to villain characters as I am a strict villain collector. To me, 16, 17 & 18 aren't villains at all. They're just renegades or malfunctioning units who end up helping the heroes at best. I'm not judging releases for figures based on who looks like what. I'd prefer to buy characters I actually love to death as opposed to ones just for being an android or something of that nature. Besides, we already know that SH is pumping out 17 and 18 soon in the lineup so it would be useless to include them in a poll knowing they are being released.
Post by princezarbon on Jun 19, 2014 1:26:04 GMT -6
Well, since I don't consider Trunks' timeline and I do consider the actual canon of the base timeline, we see 17 betray Gero, help Piccolo against Imperfect Cell, and help Goku's spirit bomb. We even see him having an internal struggle and hating to be super 17 so he sort of allows Goku to take him out. I found every one of his actions to be troubled and confused at best; never the personification of the sinister hardcore villains I love.